Posts by Cold Steel

21

By Way of Announcement, Darlene Jefferson Has Been Disfellowshiped

by Cold Steel in

i was watching a jw video where the announcement was made of a young lady's being disfellowshiped, and it happened in a regular kh sunday meeting.

this struck me as being a bit...cold.

is this when the shunning begins?

Cold Steel

IslandMan » The number of people who are DF'd and reproved is not representative of all the "serious" sinning going on. Many JWs secretly carry on "serious" sins like smoking, celebrating holidays, fornication, etc. Those that are reproved or DF'd are only those that have been found out.

Okay, smoking, celebrating holidays, fornication. Are these equally serious? What if someone attends another church? Is that like worshipping idols or something? Has visiting other churches always been strictly forbidden? Can you get DFed, shunned and everything for doing that? What if the church shares the same adventist core doctrines as the JWs? Is that still like visiting a (gasp!) Catholic church?

101

Are Gods true worshippers on Earth today? If they are not JWs then who are they?

by Formerbrother in

is there gods true worshipers on earth today as jesus said there would be?

if they are not jws then who are they?.

who else comes close to being gods true followers today?.

Cold Steel

ProLogos » I did not misrepresent the facts of the story. Meat was not allowed until the flood, hence Abel sacrificed garbage, fertilizer at best. God did not command worship, it was a spontaneous action invented by humans. The Bible story was the best guess at the time, we have moved on, and our actions, aka worship, should be based on what makes further progress. imho.

That is up to the religion as to what changes are made, but the religion of the God of Israel has always been a revealed religion and some religious scientists feel there's enough latitude built into it that there's plenty of`room for faith. Of all the religions on Earth, it's the only one based on continuing revelation, or communication between God and man.

So where are you getting your information? How do you know that no one ate meat before the flood? Or that Abel sacrificed garbage, fertilizer? Or that God did not ask for or expect worship? In the great scheme of things, worship has always included teaching. Everything has meaning. Animal sacrifice taught the blood sacrifice of Christ. It had no power to remit sins by its own virtue, but by virtue of Christ's sacrifice on the cross (and yes, ladies and gentlemen, it was a cross). In Christian times, baptism represented the burial and resurrection of Jesus. Both animal sacrifice and baptism also represented covenants (two way agreements) between God and man.

Worship is a way of recognizing the dominance and authority of God, accepting His laws as binding. God is described as being King, Lord and Master. But He also is our Father. And to believers, He has promised to reveal all things to us upon His coming.

“Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things—things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof—things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven.” (D&C 101:32-34)

And Paul wrote nearly 2,000 years ago:

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. ... Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. ... But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty."
(I Corinthians 1:19-25)

The promise is to reconcile all things. Also, God has never demanded our worship. If we accept His dominion and His Fatherhood, we receive protection (security), prosperity and knowledge. If you don't wish to worship Him, no one holds a gun to your head. Above all else, He respects free agency.

101

Are Gods true worshippers on Earth today? If they are not JWs then who are they?

by Formerbrother in

is there gods true worshipers on earth today as jesus said there would be?

if they are not jws then who are they?.

who else comes close to being gods true followers today?.

Cold Steel

ProLogos » You can't be serious, you believe in the talking snake story? I just wanted to pointed out the absurdity of it all.

Whether the talking snake story is true or whether it's metaphor or just a load of crock makes no difference. It's how the story relates to the culture that's the issue. You misrepresent the story and then ridicule it. If you choose to ridicule the talking snake, fine, have at it. But what you're doing is constructing a strawman, then attacking it and tearing it to pieces without any regard to accuracy.

101

Are Gods true worshippers on Earth today? If they are not JWs then who are they?

by Formerbrother in

is there gods true worshipers on earth today as jesus said there would be?

if they are not jws then who are they?.

who else comes close to being gods true followers today?.

Cold Steel

ProLogos » Even in the earliest bible story, god did not want to be worshipped, but when Cain and Abel invented it, he "liked the idea" (quote from Splane). strangely, Cain burned some of the meat that was piling up, (nobody even dogs would eat it), and HE quoted Splane again," like it" From there the story goes downhill.

It would certainly help if you guys took a few theology courses before posting things like this. If I wanted to know about evolution, I wouldn't go to a six-day, 24-hour creationist website.

Cain's sacrifice, according to the biblical account, had to do with the fruits and grains under Cain's auspices. The Lord stipulated the sacrificial offerings be done with a lamb without blemish for the removal of sin. This was in similitude of the sacrifice of the Messiah and was a teaching mechanism. Because Satan had instructed Cain in his offering, Yahweh rejected it, promising that if Cain listened to Him, his (Cain's) offerings would be accepted. But the scripture says Cain loved Satan more than he did God and no longer walked with Him.

God was an authoritarian figure and a lawgiver; Lucifer was a consoler and accuser. According to the story he consoled Cain and accused both Yahweh and Abel of favoritism and conspiracy. The great secret he taught Cain was how to take life for power and gain and, according to tradition, he bound Cain and his followers with dark oaths and led them away from the others. Murder immediately became a capital crime, though for some reason it was not imposed on Cain.

You need to reexamine the story before analyzing it.

8

What Must One Do To Get Baptized?

by Cold Steel in

the scriptures teach one must be baptized i the name of the father, son and holy spirit.

how do the jws baptize and what must one do to receive it?

also, if all baptized members become ordained ministers, does that mean they can baptize their own converts?

Cold Steel

That's just it. The great Yahweh of the universe establishing His church and Kingdom through a New York publishing company! And He did it without uttering a word. He simply put in an invisible appearance in 1918 (even the JWs couldn't see it). So how did they know? Did Yahweh tell them? Nope. Was it in prophecy? Not exactly. Perhaps they heard Him declare it in the Heavens. Huh-uh.

You know how they know? Seriously?

They compared their doctrines and understanding of the Bible with those of other Christian sects and they discovered, after considerable study, that...drumroll...oh, would you look at that? They were the only church that had the best, most reliable doctrines and beliefs. I mean, what are the chances of that?

Of course, that was before the Branch Davidians so who knows?

18

I want to understand violence

by Chook in

tell me your thoughts ?.

Cold Steel

Well, you say "self defense" but against whom? And "border control" against what? You said "invasion protection" but what of the invader? And punishment of whom?

For each of these there is a polar opposite. There is self defense against attackers, border patrol against robbers and contraband; invasion protection against armed invaders who seek wealth, control, women and their own security. And punishment against those who are scofflaws or those who are laws unto themselves. So all of these things involve violence on both sides. That's why gun control is undesirable. Good people don't need to have their guns confiscated and bad people won't have their guns confiscated (until it's been misused).

That guy in Australia who shot a warning shot over the guys who were trying to fire bomb his house. He ended up in as much trouble as the guys who were trying to harm him. In fact, they later let these guys go and the punitive actions were directed against the wrong person, who paid horrendous legal fees. I hate to see this type of thinking making inroads into America.

8

What were two Chinese doing in Roman London?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in the ancient world, people moved around much more than we may have expected, (think of paul's reported journeys and those of his supporters), but the identification of two skeletons in a roman era burial ground, as chinese has surprised historians.. the uk bbc reports: .

dr rebecca redfern, curator of human osteology at the museum of london, told bbc radio 4's the world at one, the find was "the first time in roman britain we've identified people with asian ancestry" and it was "absolutely phenomenal".. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37452287.

Cold Steel

Doesn't even make me blink. People got around so much more than we think they did. It's amazing how many ancients knew about the Western Hemisphere. The Chinese traded with those who traded with Rome and much of the frankincense used in the Jewish temple came from the East. That Chinese explorers ended up in Britain isn't as crazy as it may first appear. They may well have thought that "home" was beyond the Straits of Heracles and across the ocean, who knows? I'd love to read their stories, but they most likely reached Jerusalem through the Frankincense Trail and continued on to either Greece or Rome, then on to Britain with the legions. It could have taken them years.

8

What Must One Do To Get Baptized?

by Cold Steel in

the scriptures teach one must be baptized i the name of the father, son and holy spirit.

how do the jws baptize and what must one do to receive it?

also, if all baptized members become ordained ministers, does that mean they can baptize their own converts?

Cold Steel

But do they? Every day Armageddon is one day closer, and this has been going on for a very long time. If it was close in 1974, imagine how close it is now!

Can you feel the excitement growing within you?

Well, probably not. And that's the problem with the WTS. A spinning top will spin only so long. But new tops are being spun each day and some tops stopped spinning some time ago! That means tops stop spinning each day as well. And there are many wobbling tops that are nearly worn out. The people near death who thought they would never die must think about it. The youthful smugness is gone and eternity opens wide to receive them. My grandmother was no JW, but she was influenced by their doctrines and had looked forward to seeing my departed grandfather in the spirit realm. But after reading some Watchtowers, she feared she would go to the grave, cease to exist and she grew to fear it. Yet my JW relatives thought her knowing "the truth" would comfort her when, in fact, it terrified her.

For some reason the old frequently fear death more than the young. And when one is told that millions now living will never die, and they heard it when they were young, it would certainly cause me to rethink things. I'm sure, though, that there are many new members who are feeling the same excitement that the end is near. Makes me wonder at what point they do care?

101

Are Gods true worshippers on Earth today? If they are not JWs then who are they?

by Formerbrother in

is there gods true worshipers on earth today as jesus said there would be?

if they are not jws then who are they?.

who else comes close to being gods true followers today?.

Cold Steel

LisaRose, perhaps you're reading too much into it. FormerBrother never said, "Hey, if the JWs are wrong, who's right?" I know some JWs use that reasoning, thinking that their doctrines are so unassailably correct that they must win by default, but they're far from correct. And they use it to comfort themselves into believing the WTS is "The Truth" because they can't get any confirmation from God, so they lean on the dictates of men. "They draw near me with their lips, and with their mouths they do honor me, but their hearts are far from me." (Isaiah 29)

Butt FB never used the argument. He merely asked for opinions. I didn't get the impression he was defending the Society, just asking for alternatives. I might be wrong, but with a handle like "FormerBrother," he may just be asking a question.

21

By Way of Announcement, Darlene Jefferson Has Been Disfellowshiped

by Cold Steel in

i was watching a jw video where the announcement was made of a young lady's being disfellowshiped, and it happened in a regular kh sunday meeting.

this struck me as being a bit...cold.

is this when the shunning begins?

Cold Steel

So if you go into a meeting and crawl, you have a good shot at not being DF'ed?

What happens if one simply repents of the sin and decided not to trouble the elders? If one leads a good life from then on and then dies, Yahwe will not burn him at Armageddon, will He? If no, does the person just get a little singed? Maybe a little crispy around the edges?

So why would anyone do that to themselves? Who wants to be DF'ed and treated like crap when they could keep it between themselves and God? I mean if elders can sin, keep it to themselves and repent and stay elders, why muck things up?

Here's a scenario: Bill is a faithful brother but misses his non-JW family. One Christmas he attends the family's delicious and acclaimed festive meals and his family slips him some gifts, reminding him that Jesus gave mankind the ultimate gift. (Obviously they don't know that they'll die horrible deaths at Armageddon and that they'll perish forever into oblivion.) But for now our attention is on Bill. He accepts the gifts, but not in the spirit of the pagan holiday, but as reminders of Jesus' sacrifice as his mother had said. Later, he's wracked with guilt. He saw their vile tree and the offensive ornaments and lights. He ate their putrid food (which was excellent by the way) and had even enjoyed it! What should he do? Must he report this disgusting deed to the elders? What if he doesn't? What if he attended their despicable church, the one he grew up in, to hear bible readings?

How much trouble is Bill in with Jehovah?